Talk:Experience by area (DXHR)

a few words
Hi, I'm the creator of this page and I'm trying very hard to find and list all XP opportunities in the game. I'm writing this list as I'm going for a max-XP playthrough, so sections will be added one after another as I progress through the game, which can take a while. Feel free to add things I overlooked or even whole sections. Just when you do so, please try and follow these guidelines: Thanks, Santaranger 22:48, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Do not list anything that is not related to XP or Praxis.
 * Stick to the short listing style. Put explanations at the beginning of a section/part, if necessary.
 * Avoid giving gameplay hints, like how to reach a specific location. I found it's the most fun thing to come here, find an XP bonus listed that I didn't know of, and try to get it myself. Also, since this game is so emersive, your hint might not be the preferred way for others, anyway.

Length
This is going to be a long page, so maybe we should already now look into ways of minimizing it. Maybe there is a way to "fold" sections (the main locations) into 1 line, like TOC.

Lenght is fine for me now, and even in the future. I prefer a single, long page. As for folding, well, the TOC suffices, IMHO.

As earlier noted, equipement should NOT be listed here. Jeahra 20:11, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah this page is gonna be a monstrosity in size... the information is already pretty condensed, my only thought is to break the sections up into their own pages, and use this page to link those pages. Considering that there could be videos and pictures for so many of these entries, that might actually be better anyway, I'm thinking of doing the same for the Augmentations (DX3) article, it's suffering from basically the same issue at the moment. But any other suggestions would be great. Also, the use of tables for some of the info could help, I dunno. Philanthr0py 18:49, September 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure, but I think it might be possible to add new wiki compoments, such as folding sections, which are used in some wikis for spoilers, by the wiki admins. Otherwise I can't see how the page could be made smaller. I'd rather not split it up into several pages.


 * Regarding videos/pictures: I updated my topmost posting on gameplay hints. The videos I made are already against my own guidelines, but I decided to include them because people can easily ignore them entirely. This would not really be possbile for pictures next to the listings so they're out of question from my point of view.


 * I don't see how tables could help structuring the information, either. Feel free to experiment with them and show us your results. Any other layout improvements are welcome, especially for those hard to structure phases like northern detroit/derelict row Santaranger 10:22, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Regarding double-takedowns
There will be a slight variation in earned xp, depending on the number of double take-downs performed. My personal opinion is that I won't go out of my way to perform double-takedowns in order to absolutely maximize xp gain. While I haven't tried it yet, i'm pretty sure one can double-takedown any two enemies with a clear path between them. You can just distract them, shooting where you want them to go with a silent gun, step by step.

I took MAN(50) as a good measure for xp efficient enemy neutralization that can be performed at all times, and try to include double-takedowns as much as possible, if they aren't too terrible.

Concerning double-takedowns in the first mission: it IS possible to buy the reflex booster aug before confronting Zeke. However, taking the reflex booster with your first two points pretty much screws your hacking capabilities for the near future, so you would have to do some serious backtracking.

Please do not modify listed XP values by refering to out of the way double-takedowns. Instead, leave a note at the top of the corresponding section. Santaranger 02:02, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

My suggestion concerning STD/DTD. There should be two variants of XP rewards listed in 'Man Down': one for STD only and one for DTD. ALL possible DTDs should be included, regardless of how hard it is to do them. Readers may decide for themseves if they want to bother with DTD or go for simple STD.

Formatting: For example: there are 9 enemies in the area and 6 of them can be knocked out with DTD. So the should look like this: MAN (450/525). 'Section XP' and 'Part XP' should also include DTD bonuses: 'Part XP: 1400/1650'. Check how I did it in Sarif's Plant section, I think it's okay. 109.120.42.239 17:29, October 5, 2011 (UTC) gyron

Videos
several of the sections have walkthrough videos, but use external links to do so; it would probably be better wiki format to put those videos in a gallery, and swap the ext links with inbound links to the #gallery section on the page; opinions? Philanthr0py 22:17, September 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Video links updated. Thanks for the hint. Santaranger 19:58, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Jensen's Computer
The guide mentions very explicitly 'Do not hack your own computer yet.' even after Jensen has Capture 3 when he comes back from the Factory. Why is this? The computer becomes hackable again on the second visit to Detroit, after Hengsha and Montreal, so unless the minigame has an extra datastore after getting back from highland park that wasn't there before there doesn't seem to be any reason not to hack it.Tetracycloide 15:57, October 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * This is because hacking it automatically reads the 1st email, which triggers a side quest and unlocks thorpe's apartment, which eliminates 2 extra hacking bonuses (see 'the alley')

DT maximizing
Hi, Santa. Great job with this guide so far!

If you'd like I can go over the sections you've finished and fix the the DTs -- since I've bothered to do every DT possible :) Also maybe I should add an alternative approach to Sarif's Plant? I.e.: metagame on a 1st visit to Sarif's Industries, taking this 3 bonuses: EBO(400): Office 25 and 27. Books 4 & 5 of 29. EXP(100): vents: office 25-27 -- and then play the the Sarif's Plant level, getting every XP reward normally, but leaving out enemies for the later. I can confirm that with this strategy it's possible to knock out only 6 enemies (out of 32) in Sarif's Plant, get 2nd praxis, take Reflex Booster, and then knock out the rest 26 with DTs (13 x MAN(125) = 1625XP). BTW it won't prevent you from getting Hacking: Capture 2-5 early, even before going into Polic Station: 1 praxis you can get from side-quests, 1 from behind the breakable wall under DRB, 2 from the clinic.

I've also added two small things: EXP(200): On top of the locked gate to Tindall/O'Malley building. MAN(50): Punk in front of the Detective's Chase building, behind the gas station. He seems to be a developers' oversight, since he is BOTH a civilian, like other punks in the area, AND gives XP like a normal enemy. He appears later near the DRB territory entrance on a 2nd visit to Detroit, giving another MAN(50).

109.120.39.34 11:06, October 5, 2011 (UTC)gyron


 * I haven't tried this... can you still hack the hq office doors after the plant level if you opened them with the codes on your first visit ? 129.69.116.203 11:23, October 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * No. If, let's say, you open office #27 door with a code (4145), you can't hack it later: -HAC(50). BUT the pros outweight the cons here: 500 XP early = 10 single take-downs less (10x50XP) = 5 more DTs = 5x25XP = 125XP. Now factor the missed hack (50XP): 125-50=75XP bonus you can't get otherwise.
 * 109.120.39.34 11:41, October 5, 2011 (UTC) gyron
 * looks like I need to do some more lvl1 runs... ~santa
 * ^No need, since you've found every XP possible, besides DTs. If you add up all the bonuses listed minus all the MAN(X) you'll get 4205 XP. +45XP from the turret guarding the server room = 4250 XP. +500XP from Sarif's HQ = 4750XP. Which means that after 5 single take-downs you can get second praxis -- I normally knock out the 5 guys in a last room before Zeke. There is also an odd number of enemies (5) in a lab before server room, so that's another STD = MAN(50). After that it's possible DT every guard. 109.120.42.239 13:54, October 5, 2011 (UTC) gyron


 * I was wondering, were you able to DTD all the mentioned guards without losing ghost bonuses, I mean without becoming completely crazy in the process? Santaranger 16:20, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course. I wouldn't be posting otherwise. Though I have to admit that two DTDs out of 13 are extremely difficult to pull off without ruining ghost: first involving the guard patrolling camera halls and second with the guard from the recreational area. These two just won't leave their areas and require some mind-bending tricks to lure them close to the other guards. Each one takes about 10-15 minutes to do. 109.120.42.239 16:44, October 5, 2011 (UTC) gyron

Separate 'Hunk of Junk' from 'Man Down'?
Maybe you should separate 'Hunk of Junk' bonus from 'Man Down'? After all, bots/turrets are handled a bit differently than human enemies: bonus is the same no matter how they're killed, and turrets don't affect 'Ghost'. It will also makes text clearer and easier to navigate. So, for example, if someone would want to count how many human enemies are there on the level they wouldn't have to substract bot's XP from the total MAN(XP).


 * done. Santaranger 08:28, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Length: Enemies
Originally, I had only counted the enemies and written down their STD XP: Then, people started writing down the exact locations, which ended up looking like this: Now, even more informartion on the enemies was added, so the same bullet has been expanded to contain all this information:
 * MAN(750): 15 enemies before hostage room.
 * MAN(750): 15 enemies before hostage room (5 in loading hall, 3 around recreation area, 2 at reception, 4 in factoring labs, 1 in storage room 01).
 * MAN(750/1000): 15 enemies before hostage room (5 in loading hall, 3 around recreation area, 2 at reception, 4 in factoring labs, 1 in storage room 01). [DTD note: 1) It's possible to knock out with DTD one of the guards from the recreational area together with a guard from the loading hall; 2) The same goes for the guard patrolling the camera corridors and one from the factoring lab.]

I suggest returning to the original minimalist style and creating a new page dedicated to enemy encounters: So someone could just check the number of enemies and visit the extra page if he finds he is missing some, or if they want to further maximize XP from them.
 * MAN(750+): 15 enemies before hostage room. See Enemies by Area for details.

I think this would be a decent measure to keep the size of the page somewhat under control.

Santaranger 08:43, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, page is already very cluttered, it needs some unloading. Stand-alone 'Enemies by Area' page will keep combat tactics (which may vary wildly between different players) separate from the other bonuses which everyone can receive regardless of play style. But I still suggest writing (STD XP / all possible DTD XP), since on this page we're counting maximum XP available. If we keep this short, it will be informative enough and will not require visiting 'Enemies by Area' page just to see the maximum XP per area:

MAN(750/925): 15 enemies before hostage room, 7 DTD + 1 STD. <--No details other than these.

...

Part XP: 1400/1575

Though maybe we should keep the page as it is now (with full details and DTD tactics) before it's finished? After that we can make the different page for enemies and just cut-and-paste enemy info from here. And only THEN tidy up here?

109.120.1.146 09:31, October 6, 2011 (UTC) gyron

No, the split should happen ASAP. Reviewing other users' changes is very tediuous. It's getting out of hand with enemy tactics included. Santaranger 12:19, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Well, you're doing most of the work here, so it's up for you to decide. If you're keeping the combat tactics from this page, then at least have MAN(XP) listed apart from TOT(XP). Or better -- drop it alltogether, leaving the number of enemies only. Because presuming that player absolutely must have  knocked out everybody with STD -- and including it in max XP -- is no much better than keeping the current mixed DTD/STD XP. Gyronium 13:05, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Police station hacks
How can you hack all computers without knocking anyone out? OK so in the beginning I didn't realize they were all hackable. Now I see they all become hackable if I, say, set the officers alerted. But hacking is still out of question when they stroll around in alerted mode... Santaranger 20:02, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Well you can just kill everybody after you've finished the bussiness in DPD. If you're looking for a peacuful solution see the video I've posted at the start of the section (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5kBq1tJT_k).

I seriously think the computers turning usable is a bug.

There is no hint for the player that the 'used' computers are more than ornamental.

There are many more unusable computers. How do you know if one can become usable?

On the second visit, after Highland Park, the computers don't become usable, no matter how I try. The rest of Detroit seems as I left it.<p style="margin-left: 40px">P.S: Someone is really messing around with the editor.... Santaranger 21:55, October 6, 2011 (UTC) It's not a bug, that's how game handles specific NPCs linked to specific computers on this particular level. Policemen AI logic works like this:

IF (NORMAL OR ALARMED) THEN (Keep Linked Computer Unusable);

IF (HOSTILE) THEN (Go into 'Take Cover' mode) AND (Turn Computer Usable).

You're right that there is no general rule to it. What computers can be turned usable this way is likely set on case by case basis by level designer.

I think this trick works only on 1st and 3rd floor of Police Station (in the whole game). For comparison, try to kill (or lure away) the policeman sitting in front of the computer in the DPD basement near the cells. Though circumstances are the same as with policemen on 1st floor, his computer will allways remain unlocked (i.e. as if it is already hacked). There are computers occupied by civilians in Hengsha and they're also stay unlocked no matter what.

Gyronium 22:17, October 6, 2011 (UTC) </li> <p style="margin-left: 80px">still, that doesn't explain why it doesn't work after highland park. Santaranger 22:30, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Like I said: "what computers can be turned usable this way is likely set on case by case basis by level designer." If you want an explanation -- designers just didn't bother to assign a specific 'Lock Computer' script to AI on later levels. OR maybe the computers getting locked in the Police Station was intented as a compensatory XP reward for players who have chosen to start a massacre -- instead of doing it the stealthy way and getting Ghost/SO. P.S.: I think bulleted list fucks up the page layout, better not use it here.  Gyronium 22:49, October 6, 2011 (UTC)