Talk:Zenith

"DPX"
Someone keeps trying to add "DPX" figures to weapon pages; to get these he seems to just be multiplying damage by rate of fire. The problem is there is no evidence the in-game weapon stat bars are directly comparable and significant evidence they are not: for example, the pistol does *not* fire four-fifths as fast as the laser rifle when fully upgraded, neither does it deal seven-tenths the damage of the rocket launcher. Using the "DPX" figure for direct comparison is nonsense. 193.35.132.52 23:19, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Damage per Xylophone. Ill check the history of this page, and if its the same guy whos been doing this to all pages Ill give him a warning. I think hes unregistered. Dorgles 23:25, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Pistol Primary?
I threw in the note about the pistol being a good primary weapon for a lethal stealth run, but someone reverted the change with the line 'can never be a primary, that's why it's a sidearm' (or to that effect) for the edit reason. This bothers me just a touch, since that recommendation was based on my own experiences with the weapon--it's seriously what I use the most and it's darn good at the role of stealthy and reliable headshots. Could I get some backup on this? --74.182.83.96 05:24, September 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed. If I wasn't playing pacifist, I would take the pistol as my primary gun instead of the stun gun. Irian 05:37, September 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * People, please stop doing nonsense undos: Just because YOU don't use it as a primary weapon, doesn't mean that it can't be used as one. As headshots with it can be very lethal (especially upgraded), ammo is available everywhere, a silencer can be attached, etc. the Pistol can be a great choice for someone who wants to play sneaky silent killer. Irian 09:26, September 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that you can upgrade it early on to negate armor. Funildodeus 18:06, September 7, 2011 (UTC), 1305, September 7, 2011
 * For free, since the AP upgrade is found in Jensen's apartment. It's rather like the plasma cutter in Dead Space--it's surprisingly good and available from the start, and stays useful for the whole length of the game --74.182.83.96 02:32, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, honestly, I haven't found a situation outside of boss fights where the pistol hasn't served me well. The thing is just scary versatile if you don't suck at taking head shots Funildodeus 04:38, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * A pistol is not a primary weapon by definition. That is why a pistol is called a sidearm. Please don't mangle weapon terminology based on how you use the weapon in the game. It can be the main weapon you use, but primary weapon is a term that actually means something in real life. 2.24.36.109 08:25, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * If your "sidearm" is the ONLY weapon you carry, it has to be your primary weapon, because you don't have any other. Sidearm doesn't exclude it's use as a primary weapon, as a "primary weapon" can only be defined for a person or group of persons: A primary weapon may be defined for a specific army or police unit, but that doesn't mean that this weapon is a primary weapon for everyone. It is used as one by this specific unit, not more. So if you always only have one weapon, this weapon automatically becomes your primary weapon. If you have only got a knife, it doesn't make sense calling it your "backup weapon". Irian 08:37, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, a sidearm is always a sidearm. If it's your only weapon, that just means you don't have a primary weapon. I'm not opposed to saying it can be the player's main weapon, but let's use that term rather than one that isn't strictly correct. 2.24.36.109 08:44, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all: I never discussed the term "sidearm", which is really quite common and pretty well defined. I discussed the term "primary weapon" and I still think that your (always) only weapon automatically becomes your primary weapon, but that isn't the important point. For me, it's only important that the article makes clear that the pistol can be used as your only weapon (and that, for some styles, it may even be the best weapon). I don't care if you call it "main", "only" or "primary" weapon, really, as long as you don't try to force the "a pistol is only a backup weapon" idea into the article - because that's simply not true for this game. My main reason to edit the article was to remove that "backup only" point. Irian 10:49, September 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Definition of "primary" according to Websters: "of first rank, importance, or value." That sure sounds like me using the pistol in the way I use it. Funildodeus 23:52, September 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * A sidearm by definition is any weapon held in a holster on your side or belt for easy access, be it a pistol or even a knife. There is nothing in the definition stating that a sidearm cannot be a primary weapon. 71.201.238.78 17:33, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Ammo scarcity
Ammo for the pistol definitely is an issue later in the game. Few enemies carry pistols, and those that do stick with revolvers. Ammo boxes are far and few between as well. 178.183.252.225 18:54, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

I've collected about 480 rounds for the pistol and around 780 for combat rifle by the mission to rescue Tong Jr. Those two were also my only weapons carried during the playthrough. Ammo isn't really an issue if you aim the shots properly. -S- 14:28, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

Inadequate primary?
The strange flailing about semantics aside, the pistol as a "primary weapon" ("primary" meaning primary usage and "weapon" meaning weapon) is technically one of the most, if not THE most lethal weapons in the game when fully upgraded (22 rounds, 16 damage per round, 0.3 seconds per round, full armor penetration). Assuming someone has skills approaching the limit of human abilities, the 10mm can headshot a llight or medium enemy every 0.3 seconds in a firefight; heavies take two headshots, though this is still only a total of 0.3 seconds between the first and second round to the helmet. Sure, most people don't have the insane reflexes required to pull off 3 headshots in under a second reliably, but I would argue that the description of the pistol as insufficient for a full on firefight is incorrect - after all armor ignoring damage just gets better and better as the game progresses, while a fully upgraded combat rifle (twice the clip and three times faster rate of fire, but only 12 damage per round with no armor penetration) just feels plain weak by the endgame when you have to bounce a pile of rounds off a heavy's helmet to get a kill. 173.181.38.229 06:33, November 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * As for "inadequate primary" and "it [the pistol] is not suitable for full-scale combat situations", I don't think that's correct. I'm actually convinced this is outright wrong, judging from personal experience. Considering that the pistol's damage output, rate of fire, ammo capacity, and reload speed can be upgraded four times each, it performs very well in full-scale combat situations. If fires extremely quickly and deals quite a lot of damage, doesn't run out of ammo too quickly, and is fast to reload. Add to that the laser targeting system and the armor-piercing system, and the pistol turns into a tremendously powerful weapon. I've used it in my latest (fourth) playthrough on Give Me Deus Ex A LOT, and it really is a beast. CrankyCrank 02:40, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * As an example of the pistol's brutal efficiency, I killed Namir as his battle began by throwing a stun grenade at his feet, lining up my pistol with his head before the grenade went off, and then riding the trigger (zero recoil augs, full damage and rate of fire on pistol.) By the time the flash was clearing, he hit me once and then died on his starting blocks. 173.181.38.229 09:01, May 31, 2012 (UTC)