Talk: Biomods

"biomods" vs "augmentations"

The augmentations in Deus Ex: Invisible War are actually called "biomods" in that game. However, for simplicity's sake, they may be called "augmentations" in this Wiki page. Just to clear confusion. Eddo36 10:52, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Makes no sense. Changing the terminology used to make it wrong isn't going to clear up confusion; the page needs to call them what they're actually called in the game. Otherwise it's like chaging the pagename for GEP gun to "rocket launcher" even though it's never called that by the game. 2.24.36.214 11:43, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

It's different, here we will need to keep a standard format with other games, which would be rather strange and could be misinterpreted to have three pages with two different names for the same thing. "Biomods" and "Biomod" already redirect to "Augmentations (DX2)" so people are not mistaken.

In addition, biomods was a mistake made by the devs, this term is too vague (biomodification is the process of modifying a biological organism using either genetic or mechanical means, so mechanical augmentation or physiopharmaceutical augmentation are also biomodification), and they are called nano-augmentations in the description of bioelectric cells. Itachou ^[~talk~] 11:53, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but someone coming here looking for information on DX2 is going to find that the Biomods are referred to by an incorrect name (ie, one which is not used in the game). It doesn't matter if it's a "mistake made by the devs," it's what the game calls them. If we're going town that route, you could just as well argue that Jensen's whole-limb replacements should be called "bionics" rather than "augmentations," since you can't really augment a limb that is totally missing to start with.

Keeping a standard format is well and good but the games do not follow such a format and it's dishonest to claim otherwise. Sure, they should be linked to from pages on augs as normal, but it should always be emphasised that in IW augs are called Biomods, not lied about for the sake of false uniformity. 2.24.36.214 12:01, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I do agree with 2.24.36.214, though it's not my call. Eddo36 12:07, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

The Deus Ex Wiki is also here to consolidate the mistakes made by the developers, conscitence with the universe and keeping a standard format with other games is really important. Their in-game name is already mentioned in the intro of the page, and also like I said the Biomods and Biomod page already redirect here (just write them in the search bar), and the term "nano-augmentation" is used in the bioelectric cells description. Itachou ^[~talk~] 12:16, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

There's a difference between pointing out mistakes in a footnote and altering history because you don't approve of it, though. A wiki can say something is incorrect, but it's not the wiki's job to correct every instance of it; that's far more likely to confuse people than doing nothing at all. We have no obligation to imply the in-game universe is more consistant than it actually is. 2.24.36.214 12:21, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

You have wrong and I think you have no idea in science. In a different point, I think you don't know the goal and our policy here so I suggest you to read the policies and guidelines.

We have the obligation to keep a consistence of the Deus Ex universe, everything was done to ensure that the player doesn't lose it while keeping the consistency of the universe. Also, biomods is also used for the Illuminati Elite Trooper that are physiopharmaceutical augmentation. Itachou ^[~talk~] 12:32, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

No, we do not have the obligation to "keep consistence," we have an obligation to report accurately what is in the games. What you're doing is basically nothing more than writing fanfiction of what you think should be in the game, not documenting what actually is in the game. If the game makes a mistake, we can document that it's a mistake, but it's not good form to correct it. The fact that in IW Biomods are called Biomods is canon.

I suggest you read the guidelines: "all content needs to be accurate" (lying about what these items are called is not accurate), "All content needs to be objective" (trying to alter canon to fit your views of what is "scientific" is not objective), and "All content needs to relate to the games as delivered by the developers" (the developers called them Biomods, not Augmentations). You are the one violating guidelines by trying to invent a common term where the games do not use one. I suppose we should also call Praxis kits "augmentation canisters" to be "consistent?" 2.24.36.214 12:39, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Praxis kit is an item, not a gameplay settings linked with other games.

Well, I'm a long time here and I'm an admin, so I know how to run this wiki and it is not you who will tell me how it works here. Keep consistence is the first goal of the Wiki ("All content needs to be objective" - mind-independent, just revisit the definition), if you don't agree, you have nothing to do here. Also, your attitude of "I'm right and you're wrong", generally sticks and will win you no favours. Additionally, you start picking a fight with a valued editor and admin, kinda reminds me of User:Lugiatm on The Vault, something which doesn't bode well for you.

"All content needs to be accurate", "All content needs to relate to the games as delivered by the developers", just a note but a name of a page is not a in-game content since UNATCO is never name in-game "United Nations Anti-Terrorist Coalition" or FEMA is never name in-game "Federal Emergency Mobilisation Administration", for the rest, all was makes by noting the mistake in the page, and naming the page in a standard format to keep consistency with other games and the Deus Ex universe.

In another point, you have no idea in science and I think you're talking about something that you don't know, so believe me, it's better this way for consistency. Also, I'm the one who wrote the policies and guidelines approved by the other admins that I know exactly what it's talking. For the rest, my suggestions are above, nothing more to say, good day. Itachou ^[~talk~] 13:09, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you understand what the word "objective" actually means. Objectivity is reporting on things without personal bias. That means in the case of a referencable and verifiable term being used, we do not refuse to use that term simply because we do not like it. "Biomod" is an easily verifiable term; the PC English-language manual to Deus Ex: Invisible War uses it on pages 4, 8, 10, 12, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20. It's also used throughout the game. That means that no matter what you personally think of it re: accuracy, it is what these things are called. I would thank you to cease insulting my intelligence and attempting to use your position on the wiki as a conversational battering ram; my arguments stand or fall on their own merits, and it speaks poorly of you that you don't trust yours to without shoring them up with irrelevance. 2.24.36.214 13:28, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Pretty civil so far, a fair argument with both sides having good points, hope it stays that way. Eddo36 13:34, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I'm objective since I put the "biomods" word in the page since if not, I would remove it, just that you do not notify. I do not insult your intelligence but I note your ignorance about science, which are two different things.

Anyway, what you want? The name of a page (especially game settings) is not always linked to an in-game content, biomod-biomods redirect here and biomods is already write in the page, with a notification of the mistake for consistent. So I don't understand what you want now. The page will not be renamed because it is not always related to game content and the most important is to keep consistency with other games and the Deus Ex universe. Your "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude don't work here, you are here since not even one day and you want to impose your view? Yes continue, saw your pragmatic attitude last time, just a warning but you're not far from the ban my friend. Itachou ^[~talk~] 13:59, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Thing is, I'm not ignorant about science (I have two A Levels in hard sciences, actually). This discussion isn't about science, it's about canon; whether it's bad science to call these things Biomods isn't really relevant, what I'm arguing is that we should say what the game says, if not in the page title (which I haven't changed) then certainly in the body text of the article. It can be sourced that they're called that (most easily DXIW Manual for PC, P.16, third subsection heading "Biomods"). Whether a particular user thinks that term is "vague" doesn't really change that it's the term the developers chose to use; let's face it, a lot of real terms for things are vague (witness the German term for aircraft "flugzeug" literally meaning "flying thing," for example) and it's not like it's unbelievable than in 20 years some people have started marketing augmentations under a new name; after all, we don't still call cars "horseless carriages."

Put simply, you will never, at any point in DXIW, encounter any item called an "Augmentation canister," or any item called an "Augmentation." You will, however, come across Biomod canisters and Biomods. It's far more likely to confuse people when you switch terminology on them without a good reason than when they find that IW used a different name for Augs. What's the point of trying to act like the game didn't do that when it did? Trying to "keep consistency" breaks down when you're actually making pages inconsistent with the games they're supposed to be talking about.

I must admit I'm puzzled as to what you mean by "I'm right and you're wrong attitude." I would hardly be making edits if I didn't think I was right about them. Also, what do you mean about "last time?" I don't think I've ever met you before. 2.24.36.214 14:23, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Ho sorry but the term "nano-augmentation" is used in the bioelectric cells description and biomods is also used for the Illuminati Elite Trooper that are physiopharmaceutical augmentation - so your canon falls by the wayside. I finish Deus Ex: Invisible War, the biomods term is used for any augmentation in Deus Ex: Invisible War, not only nano-augmentation and the augmentations in Deus Ex: Invisible War are nano-augmentation. Two A Levels in hard sciences? This does not mean that you know the word "biomodifications". Anyway second time, what you want?

For the name of the page, I gave my opinion and I will not change my view. You do not want to go to a compromise, too bad for you. Now for the last time I talk about that -> [1] - we were talking about and you change the page without reaching an agreement, in addition with an admin while you are an anonymous user not even there for one day. You don't respect my opinion from the beginning and you have lost all creditability with me on this subject.

So I would suggest that you should take a step back, sit back and get used to this site and the people who also contribute here, before you start trying throw your weight around. Itachou ^[~talk~] 14:44, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know what you think that proves: yes, a single description says the Biomods are examples of nano-augmentation. That still doesn't change that the game calls the things themselves Biomods. The example for the elite troopers is a language issue; the term "Biomod" is used in the game to refer to both a specific thing (your abilities) and a much larger class of things (all bio-modification). Human Revolution actually does precisely the same thing, since "Augments" is a term used for both the abilities you get in game and for people who have recieved mechanical augmentation; as above, the term describes both a thing and a class of things. You don't argue one use is invalid because of the other, that makes no sense. Anyway, the game's manual says it clearly:

"Biomods are modular nanotechnology implants that imbue you with extraordinary abilities." (Manual, P. 16)

You can't get much clearer than that; both uses are correct in terms of the game's world. At present, the article contains some very strange and inaccurate language ("Augmentations are installed with biomod canisters," for example: this is a clear case of using the wrong word for no good reason) that simply doesn't reflect the terms the developers chose to use. 2.24.36.214 15:25, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

That is a valid argument. I will re-write the intro but biomods remain augmentations so the name of the page will keep like that. Itachou ^[~talk~] 15:33, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I took care of the page the best I can, if you are still not agree, I cannot do anything for you. Itachou ^[~talk~] 15:58, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Congrats on the resolution, guys. Eddo36 01:13, September 2, 2011 (UTC)